Discussion:
Which NTSC to VGA adapter is best for C64?
(too old to reply)
Tom
2007-02-19 19:42:49 UTC
Permalink
I'm looking to buy an NTSC to VGA adapter for my C64 since I just don't have
the desk space for the old 1802D monitor anymore. I want one that does NOT
require a PC but is just a standalone converter box, so any PCI or USB tuners
are out.

I've tried an "AverMedia TV Genie" once before and the picture quality
through the S-video input looked quite good. Even the games with goofy color
schemes were readable. Unfortunately this box has an annoying cooling fan
which is almost as loud as a PC.

So I'm looking for something equivalent, and so far I've found the Kworld
TVbox 1440. The price is fairly cheap so I'm not sure how good the picture
will be, and I can't figure out if it has a cooling fan or not. Any opinions
or reccomendations?

--Tom.
a***@netzero.com
2007-02-19 21:28:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom
I'm looking to buy an NTSC to VGA adapter for my C64 since I just don't have
the desk space for the old 1802D monitor anymore. I want one that does NOT
require a PC but is just a standalone converter box, so any PCI or USB tuners
are out.
I've tried an "AverMedia TV Genie" once before and the picture quality
through the S-video input looked quite good. Even the games with goofy color
schemes were readable. Unfortunately this box has an annoying cooling fan
which is almost as loud as a PC.
So I'm looking for something equivalent, and so far I've found the Kworld
TVbox 1440. The price is fairly cheap so I'm not sure how good the picture
will be, and I can't figure out if it has a cooling fan or not. Any opinions
or reccomendations?
--Tom.
Hi,
I use a ViewSonic VB50HRTV, no fans. Comes with a tuner and a remote.
http://www.viewsonic.com/support/tventertainment/tvvideoprocessors/vb50hrtv/
It's pretty old so you can probably score them for cheap on ebay.
No, I'm not selling mine!
(Mostly because I never finished my RGBI to VGA project! At least I
have a C64 on my LCD.)
christianlott1
2007-02-19 21:46:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@netzero.com
I use a ViewSonic VB50HRTV, no fans.
Just had a nostalgic moment.

At a certain point after I got my c64 monitor for Christmas I got a
beige box monitor tv tuner. It had nine or twelve preset buttons you
calibrated by a mini pot above each inside a compartment above the
buttons. Two antennas stuck out the back. Simply allowed you to tune
into standard broadcast tv.

I remember smashing those buttons trying to find something good to
watch then flipping the switch and digging into my disk collection.
Joseph Fenn
2007-02-19 22:02:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom
I'm looking to buy an NTSC to VGA adapter for my C64 since I just don't have
the desk space for the old 1802D monitor anymore. I want one that does NOT
require a PC but is just a standalone converter box, so any PCI or USB tuners
are out.
I've tried an "AverMedia TV Genie" once before and the picture quality
through the S-video input looked quite good. Even the games with goofy color
schemes were readable. Unfortunately this box has an annoying cooling fan
which is almost as loud as a PC.
So I'm looking for something equivalent, and so far I've found the Kworld
TVbox 1440. The price is fairly cheap so I'm not sure how good the picture
will be, and I can't figure out if it has a cooling fan or not. Any opinions
or reccomendations?
--Tom.
Tom Forget it. The CBM=VGA thing turned out to be vapor ware.
None was ever produced in the USA. The author of the device
did suceed in creating his box for useage with PAL but never
did complete the one that would work with NTSC displays.
Last I heard he did sell some of his boxes to Europeans who
use PAL (not ntsc).
Joe
a***@netzero.com
2007-02-21 01:36:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph Fenn
Post by Tom
I'm looking to buy an NTSC to VGA adapter for my C64 since I just don't have
the desk space for the old 1802D monitor anymore. I want one that does NOT
require a PC but is just a standalone converter box, so any PCI or USB tuners
are out.
I've tried an "AverMedia TV Genie" once before and the picture quality
through the S-video input looked quite good. Even the games with goofy color
schemes were readable. Unfortunately this box has an annoying cooling fan
which is almost as loud as a PC.
So I'm looking for something equivalent, and so far I've found the Kworld
TVbox 1440. The price is fairly cheap so I'm not sure how good the picture
will be, and I can't figure out if it has a cooling fan or not. Any opinions
or reccomendations?
--Tom.
Tom Forget it. The CBM=VGA thing turned out to be vapor ware.
None was ever produced in the USA. The author of the device
did suceed in creating his box for useage with PAL but never
did complete the one that would work with NTSC displays.
Last I heard he did sell some of his boxes to Europeans who
use PAL (not ntsc).
Joe
What in the name of Beelzebub and Cthulhu are you talking about? Do
you keep that rant in your buffer ready to paste it at any message
even containing the word VGA?

HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE NTSC VIDEO FROM THE COMMODORE 64, ***NOT***
THE RGBI FROM THE 128.
As Angry Deb would say, GOD!


LEARN TO ****READ***** FOR ^%$^$#@$%#$%!$ SAKE!!!!!!
Brian Ketterling
2007-02-21 06:28:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@netzero.com
Post by Joseph Fenn
I'm looking to buy an NTSC to VGA adapter for my C64...
I want
one that... is just a standalone converter box...
I've tried an "AverMedia TV Genie"...
Unfortunately this box has an annoying
cooling fan which is almost as loud as a PC.
So I'm looking for something equivalent...
Any opinions or reccomendations?
--Tom.
Tom Forget it. The CBM=VGA thing turned out to be vapor ware.
None was ever produced in the USA. The author of the device
did suceed in creating his box for useage with PAL but never
did complete the one that would work with NTSC displays.
Last I heard he did sell some of his boxes to Europeans who
use PAL (not ntsc).
Joe
What in the name of Beelzebub and Cthulhu are you talking about? Do
you keep that rant in your buffer ready to paste it at any message
even containing the word VGA?
HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE NTSC VIDEO FROM THE COMMODORE 64, ***NOT***
THE RGBI FROM THE 128.
As Angry Deb would say, GOD!
Joe didn't need to bring up something that doesn't exist -- that's no
help -- and I wish he wouldn't shout and curse at everybody, but if you read
Tom's question and Joe's reply above, he *was* addressing Tom's issues
(keeping in mind that for Joe, "conversion" immediately calls to mind the
C=VGA). The C=VGA was intended to convert NTSC (which is what Joe
mentioned, not RGBI) to VGA, would have been a standalone device, and would
not have had a loud cooling fan.

Joe, if you read this: it was disappointing that the C=VGA didn't work out,
but the developer obviously really tried before concluding that it was an
approach that *wasn't* going to work. That doesn't mean the problem is
insoluble, but as for that particular project -- let it go.

Brian
--
Rick Balkins
2007-02-23 00:37:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@netzero.com
Hi,
I use a ViewSonic VB50HRTV, no fans. Comes with a tuner and a remote.
http://www.viewsonic.com/support/tventertainment/tvvideoprocessors/vb50hrtv/
It's pretty old so you can probably score them for cheap on ebay.
No, I'm not selling mine!
(Mostly because I never finished my RGBI to VGA project! At least I
have a C64 on my LCD.)
Any news or work on your RGBI to VGA project?

Haven't been on IRC for awhile and probably won't be for awhile. Too busy to
be doing much IRCing. Just want to know if any further work would be
happening anytime soon. Whether to continue looking forward to the
completion of the project or not.

I been kind of out of the C= scene/community for a bit. Not even worrying
about it too much. Not quitting the scene/community though, just kind of
inactive or minimally active.
Joseph Fenn
2007-02-19 21:57:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom
I'm looking to buy an NTSC to VGA adapter for my C64 since I just don't have
the desk space for the old 1802D monitor anymore. I want one that does NOT
require a PC but is just a standalone converter box, so any PCI or USB tuners
are out.
I've tried an "AverMedia TV Genie" once before and the picture quality
through the S-video input looked quite good. Even the games with goofy color
schemes were readable. Unfortunately this box has an annoying cooling fan
which is almost as loud as a PC.
So I'm looking for something equivalent, and so far I've found the Kworld
TVbox 1440. The price is fairly cheap so I'm not sure how good the picture
will be, and I can't figure out if it has a cooling fan or not. Any opinions
or reccomendations?
--Tom.
tom Forget it! the Device your looking for turned out to be "vqporware"
and never was finalized. It was called "CBM=VGA" but the guy in
England that was gonna produce it never came up with it. They just
could'nt get it to work on NTSC systems but am told they did
create a box for PAL systems that not only worked for the C64 but also
the C128. Nothing further has ever been heard of this device and
it just dissappeared of the news groups.
Joe
Tom
2007-02-19 23:09:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph Fenn
Post by Tom
I'm looking to buy an NTSC to VGA adapter for my C64 since I just don't have
the desk space for the old 1802D monitor anymore. I want one that does NOT
require a PC but is just a standalone converter box, so any PCI or USB tuners
are out.
I've tried an "AverMedia TV Genie" once before and the picture quality
through the S-video input looked quite good. Even the games with goofy color
schemes were readable. Unfortunately this box has an annoying cooling fan
which is almost as loud as a PC.
So I'm looking for something equivalent, and so far I've found the Kworld
TVbox 1440. The price is fairly cheap so I'm not sure how good the picture
will be, and I can't figure out if it has a cooling fan or not. Any opinions
or reccomendations?
--Tom.
tom Forget it! the Device your looking for turned out to be "vqporware"
and never was finalized. It was called "CBM=VGA" but the guy in
England that was gonna produce it never came up with it. They just
could'nt get it to work on NTSC systems but am told they did
create a box for PAL systems that not only worked for the C64 but also
the C128. Nothing further has ever been heard of this device and
it just dissappeared of the news groups.
Joe
Hmm, I couldn't find any reference to the device you're talking about but it
was probably something other than a simple NTSC to VGA converter. The
converter that I need takes a plain old composite or S-video signal and
displays it on a VGA monitor. There are dozens of these boxes on the market
right now so its certainly not vaporware. Here are some examples:

http://www.avermedia.com/cgi-bin/products_tvtunerbox_avertvbox7.asp?show=3

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.
asp?EdpNo=2825463&CatId=1427

I'm trying to find the best one for use with the C64, I don't have a C128 so
no need for RGBI.
--Tom.
Brian Ketterling
2007-02-20 03:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph Fenn
tom Forget it! the Device your looking for turned out to be "vqporware"
and never was finalized. It was called "CBM=VGA" but the guy in
England that was gonna produce it never came up with it.
Hmm, I couldn't find any reference to the device you're talking about...
I'm trying to find the best one for use with the C64...
The C=VGA Joe referred to *would* have been the best device:

http://www.commodorescene.servebbs.org/vga.html

Brian
--
Tom
2007-02-20 06:27:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Ketterling
Post by Joseph Fenn
tom Forget it! the Device your looking for turned out to be "vqporware"
and never was finalized. It was called "CBM=VGA" but the guy in
England that was gonna produce it never came up with it.
Hmm, I couldn't find any reference to the device you're talking about...
I'm trying to find the best one for use with the C64...
http://www.commodorescene.servebbs.org/vga.html
Ah, I see. Well in that case I'll settle for second-best. ;)

I realize that having the A/D conversion locked to the C64 pixel clock would
give the best results, and a custom device built just for the C64 would be
ideal, but even a cheap TV capture card that does 720X480 gives half decent
results:
Loading Image...
Maybe not good enough for GEOS but more than good enough for text applications
and most games.

--Tom.
Vanessa Ezekowitz
2007-02-20 20:58:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph Fenn
I'm looking to buy an NTSC to VGA adapter for my C64 [...]
I've tried an "AverMedia TV Genie" once before and the picture quality
through the S-video input looked quite good. Even the games with goofy
color schemes were readable. Unfortunately this box has an annoying
cooling fan which is almost as loud as a PC. [...]
tom Forget it! the Device your looking for turned out to be "vqporware"
and never was finalized. It was called "CBM=VGA" but the guy in
England that was gonna produce it never came up with it. They just
could'nt get it to work on NTSC systems but am told they did
create a box for PAL systems that not only worked for the C64 but also
the C128. Nothing further has ever been heard of this device and
it just dissappeared of the news groups.
Joe
Joe, for G*D sakes, knock it off about the C=VGA. Every single time someone
brings up "C64" and "VGA" in the same paragraph, you repeat the same
diatribe!

WE ALREADY KNOW C=VGA DOESN'T HANDLE NTSC!

As Tom said quite clearly, he ALREADY HAD A WORKING DEVICE WHICH HE STOPPED
USING because of the fan noise it generates. The device he's using is
probably one of the MANY SUCH DEVICES designed to accept ANY GENERIC NTSC
VIDEO SIGNAL, which more or less includes the C64 (depending on how picky
the VGA box is).

(btw Tom, where did you buy that Genie, and for how much?)
--
"Life is full of happy and sad events. If you take the time
to concentrate on the former, you'll get further in life."
Vanessa Ezekowitz <***@gmail.com>
("DELETE THIS" to email me :-) )
Joseph Fenn
2007-02-20 23:43:15 UTC
Permalink
Vanessa
As I recall you know the whole history of C=VGA and your nasty
response to me is unwelcome. Knock it off Gal. You can either try
and help or keep quiet on this group as far as I am concerned I
will continue to help others with direct and effective answers.
Joe


**************************************************************************
* Ham since 1937 HiSchool Sophomore ex W9ZUU, KP4EX, W4FAG, KH6ARG KH6JF *
* WW2 Vet since Sep 1940 to just After VJ day. US Signal Corps AACS *
**************************************************************************
Vanessa Ezekowitz
2007-02-22 07:03:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vanessa Ezekowitz
Vanessa
As I recall you know the whole history of C=VGA
I know only a part of the history of it, and I am no longer even interested
in it, since it's clear that it will never be released.
Post by Vanessa Ezekowitz
and your nasty response to me is unwelcome.
Nasty? hardly. I'm not the one who keeps posting the SAME THING every
single time "C64" and "VGA" come up in the same paragraph, often times
chewing the C=VGA team's collective ass for their lapse in development
and/or updates to the website.

NO ONE WANTS TO READ THAT ANYMORE.

THAT is by definition "unwelcome" and is about as on-topic for this forum as
are messages someone else has been posting lambasting Jerri E. for not
getting the C=1 finished like she wanted to (hint: both subjects are
flamebait and do not really belong here).

(I'm surprised no-one's reported you to the ASPCA for beating a dead horse)
Post by Vanessa Ezekowitz
Knock it off Gal. You can either try and help or keep quiet on
this group
I shouldn't even dignify this with a response, but I'll respond anyway -
I've given every bit of help I'm capable of for more than a decade on this
newsgroup (and in the general C64 community for more than two decades),
from programming examples to minor hardware fixes and many things in
between.

In fact the last time this subject came up (or possibly before that), I seem
to recall not only trying to help but also providing both you (by email,
accidentally) and the newsgroup at large, a list of several possible
solutions to this exact same problem.

I've even made an attempt at my own design to compete with C=VGA and posted
schematics of the proposed device (sadly, I can't afford the costs needed
to finish it). When a7y started his project, I turned my energy toward
trying to assist him in whatever way I could via email, instead of trying
to compete.

In other words, don't you dare sit there and tell ME to keep quiet.
Post by Vanessa Ezekowitz
as far as I am concerned I will continue to help others with direct and
effective answers.
Your response was UNHELPFUL and INEFFECTIVE.

Tom asked for something THAT JUST WORKS and IS COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE, even
if it isn't C64-specific (Hint: it doesn't have to be!)

You answered with something THAT DOES NOT WORK (for his needs) and IS NOT
AVAILABLE.

Tom: your post wasn't offtopic even in the slightest, nor was it fodder for
a flamewar. In fact it was exactly the sort of thing one *should* post
here. That a flamewar could be started from a post like yours is dependent
only on it crossing someone's newsreader who wants to start a war.
--
"Life is full of happy and sad events. If you take the time
to concentrate on the former, you'll get further in life."
Vanessa Ezekowitz <***@gmail.com>
("DELETE THIS" to email me :-) )
Joseph Fenn
2007-02-22 19:53:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vanessa Ezekowitz
("DELETE THIS" to email me :-) )
My only last comment is "you must be a Blonde!!!!!"
Joe
Rick Balkins
2007-02-23 01:01:39 UTC
Permalink
Joseph, shut up!

This helps absolutely noone. You only mentioned C=VGA but for sakes there
are already devices that supports C64 video to VGA. C64 video is NTSC
composite video. You're likely issue is vertical positioning. When you hook
a C64 to a TV, you typically see the main darker blue background screen
starting nearly to the top of the visible part of the TV screen. Barely any
top border viewable. This may occur even with the composite video to VGA
converter.

We all know the C=VGA (the one converter that was suppose to have it
absolutely correctly displayed and vertical positioning correct.) is
vaporware. That serves noone so discussing it serves noone.

Now, to help the original poster, lets talk about what is available. That
means, discussing the myriad of composite (NTSC/PAL) video to (S)VGA
converters that are out there and which ones work correctly work, which ones
work and which ones don't work. Most any of them works but not necassarily
correct as you would see it on the C= Monitors. Perhaps with some subtle
exceptions as you might typically find. I expect correct vertical and
horizontal positioning. Relatively correct colors. At least to VICE
standards.

I doubt to see the TV's 'blur' effect and see nice square or rectangular
pixels. Simply do to the way RGB (VGA/SGVA,CGA and RGB,RGBI) monitors works.

I expect a little subtle differences but hopefully correct video
positioning.

That would be a hit and miss (probably a miss).
Post by Joseph Fenn
Post by Vanessa Ezekowitz
("DELETE THIS" to email me :-) )
My only last comment is "you must be a Blonde!!!!!"
Joe
Joseph Fenn
2007-02-23 21:59:15 UTC
Permalink
First off let me say that I'll shout when I feel like it!!!!
Rick. I am talking about C128 in color mode conversion to
VGA!!! It has not been done yet and there is no known box that
will do that here or abroad. I dont care about the lowly C64.
I quit the C64 way back about 1989. The C128 is my machine and
theres no known converter box that can handle that into a VGA
or SVGA receptacle useing NTSC. If you can quote any url that
can do that let me know!!!!!!!!
Joe



**************************************************************************
* Ham since 1937 HiSchool Sophomore ex W9ZUU, KP4EX, W4FAG, KH6ARG KH6JF *
* WW2 Vet since Sep 1940 to just After VJ day. US Signal Corps AACS *
**************************************************************************
Rick Balkins
2007-02-24 04:43:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph Fenn
First off let me say that I'll shout when I feel like it!!!!
Rick. I am talking about C128 in color mode conversion to
VGA!!! It has not been done yet and there is no known box that
will do that here or abroad. I dont care about the lowly C64.
I quit the C64 way back about 1989. The C128 is my machine and
theres no known converter box that can handle that into a VGA
or SVGA receptacle useing NTSC. If you can quote any url that
can do that let me know!!!!!!!!
Joe
How is that going to help the poster. He did not ask about the C128. Read
the subject line. Every C128 in 40col. mode (NTSC or Composite Video) will
run through any video converter that works with C64. The ONLY thing that may
not run on those video converters is C128's 80col. mode also known as VDC
video output or RGB or RGBI or also known as Digital RGB which is
functionally the similar if not the same as CGA for all intents and purposes
for those monitors. In that case, go get a CGA to VGA video converter box or
wait until A7yvm...'s video converter to get finished.

Now, for sakes, how does ANYTHING involving the C128's 80col. video output
being displayed on a VGA/SVGA monitor going to help the original poster. The
SUBJECT: line says "Which NTSC to VGA adapter is best for C64?". I'll
restate it in all caps now so that you can possibly read it:

WHICH NTSC TO VGA ADAPTER IS BEST FOR C64?

Key word hints: NTSC, VGA ADAPTER, C64

This means C64 not C128. The biggest key word is C64. This already cancels
out ANY RGB(i) to VGA converters. Since the C64 displays ONLY composite
video (in this case, we want NTSC). Since C64 video is the same as used for
television then wouldn't using a Television to VGA converter unit would be
the topic here? I would think. I would think narrowing the topic to video
converters that are useful for C64 computers would be what the original
poster wants.

Thank you. Next time, PLEASE READ THE SUBJECT LINE AND THE ORIGINAL POSTER'S
MESSAGE. Since I don't have his original message except for what was quoted
by A7YVM..., I base it from what was asked there. He wanted to know what
"Composite or Television (NTSC format) to VGA/SVGA converters are best for
the Commodore C64 personal computer."

Guess what, there are already some converters already out there, although
was not intended or designed for the purpose of the C64 but for the purpose
of seeing television on a VGA/SVGA monitor. Since, thusly, the Commodore 64
displays the same video format as a television (henceforth why we are able
to hook a Commodore 64 to a television with the A/V video jacks), would you
with all the mighty wisdom - think that those converters just might be
useful. Guess what, they already have NTSC and PAL to VGA/SVGA converters
and even ones that can support both NTSC and PAL video inputs and display
those video formats onto a VGA/SVGA monitor. I seriously hope you UNDERSTAND
what is said.

I had to repeat this multiple times, in hope that you might understand it in
one of the MULTIPLE ways that I said it and get a clue to READ what was said
before you open your mouth or put your fingers on the keys and the mouse
button (or joystick fire button)
Joseph Fenn
2007-02-25 02:23:10 UTC
Permalink
OK Rick your right of course. Wont mention it anymore unless the
C128 is specified. Sure would like to see a box for the C128.
I could use a CGA monitor straight away no problem, but no
color just a nice sharp green screen.
Joe


**************************************************************************
* Ham since 1937 HiSchool Sophomore ex W9ZUU, KP4EX, W4FAG, KH6ARG KH6JF *
* WW2 Vet since Sep 1940 to just After VJ day. US Signal Corps AACS *
**************************************************************************
rebocardo
2007-02-26 00:56:08 UTC
Permalink
If you can quote any url that can do that let me know!!!!!!!!
The products have been discontinued, but,

http://www.extron.com/technology/archive.asp?id=computervideodebuts

I have a plain old RGB 202 and this is the one you want because it has two 9
pin connectors, one digital, one analog. That way you have a separate
adjustment button for the TTL side on the front to adjust the horz. input.
The trick is getting the correct cables if you buy it off E-Bay. What is
nice about this model is the scan rate shows up in its own (15-19 Mhz) LED
on the front panel.

Mine is a stand alone box with its own power supply.

If you can, buy one with the aluminum/foam carrying case (it is pretty
nice). Sometimes people try to sell them apart from the converter for more
$.

The RGB 118 PLUS might work too since it says it supports TTL, but, I do not
own one so you would have to check that out yourself.

Another 9 pin TTL converter

http://www.shootview.com/Scan%20Converters.htm


These people carry the NTSC converters for 40 columns, yea, the RGB is
analog only.

http://www.converters.tv
Rick Balkins
2007-02-26 12:53:24 UTC
Permalink
There are a myriad more NTSC and/or PAL Television (or computers that
displays directly to TVs like Atari 400/800, Apple II, TI-99/4A, C64 & 128
(40col. mode and C64 mode), NES/SNES & other game consoles, DTV,
some/several Amiga models do this by default... list goes on) to VGA/SVGA
monitors.

Just google search and you should find. Any of them should work. The RGB
video of the C128's 80col. is essentially the same as CGA for all intents &
purposes and thus, a converter for CGA to VGA/SVGA should work for C128's 80
col. Certainly, there can be some issues but this VDC chip output is
seperate and unrelated to the VIC-II and therefore has nothing to do with
the C64 since the C64 does not have a VDC chip built into it.

Rebocardo answered Joseph's question but serves little to the original
poster. The C=VGA was just a project which would have dealt with NTSC and
PAL "40-col. output" and the VDC's 80 column RGBi output in a clean single
unit package. That was the concept. However, it has not been finished and
apparently project is discontinued. Therefore, we should now stop concerning
ourselves with "C=VGA" and move on and look at the existing products out
there. Certainly, it may not always be a single unit package. You might have
to buy two converters. One for 40 column and one for 80 col. Certainly, it
be more convenient to have a single unit do all but that may not be for
awhile. Maybe someone can go about and do a "C=VGA" - perhaps starting from
scratch or possibly take the known tech and go from there. The main point is
take the idea/concept and go from there. Just finish it instead of giving
up. That would be the key!

The idea of the C=VGA is good - even if it isn't THE "C=VGA". Enough said
about the C=VGA. Lets move on.
Post by rebocardo
If you can quote any url that can do that let me know!!!!!!!!
The products have been discontinued, but,
http://www.extron.com/technology/archive.asp?id=computervideodebuts
I have a plain old RGB 202 and this is the one you want because it has two 9
pin connectors, one digital, one analog. That way you have a separate
adjustment button for the TTL side on the front to adjust the horz. input.
The trick is getting the correct cables if you buy it off E-Bay. What is
nice about this model is the scan rate shows up in its own (15-19 Mhz) LED
on the front panel.
Mine is a stand alone box with its own power supply.
If you can, buy one with the aluminum/foam carrying case (it is pretty
nice). Sometimes people try to sell them apart from the converter for more
$.
The RGB 118 PLUS might work too since it says it supports TTL, but, I do not
own one so you would have to check that out yourself.
Another 9 pin TTL converter
http://www.shootview.com/Scan%20Converters.htm
These people carry the NTSC converters for 40 columns, yea, the RGB is
analog only.
http://www.converters.tv
r***@value.net
2007-02-27 07:53:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick Balkins
The idea of the C=VGA is good - even if it isn't THE "C=VGA". Enough said
about the C=VGA.
Not quite. Dated Feb. 26, the latest update to the C=VGA project
has
been posted by Allan Bairstow. Go to
http://commodorescene.servebbs.org/vga.html

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
RED MARTIAN
2007-02-27 07:58:15 UTC
Permalink
Not quite. Dated Feb. 26, the latest update to the C=VGA project has been
posted by Allan Bairstow. Go to http://commodorescene.servebbs.org/vga.html
Indeed, I received an update from Allan today as well. Its good to hear
whats going on, though I'm sorry to see the drama.

This thread may have been the catalyst to the update ;-)
r***@value.net
2007-02-27 08:12:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by RED MARTIAN
Indeed, I received an update from Allan today as well. Its good to hear
whats going on, though I'm sorry to see the drama.
Did you notice the bitterness in his website posting? :-(
Post by RED MARTIAN
This thread may have been the catalyst to the update ;-)
I don't think so. I think he just wants to tie off the last
loose ends before he leaves active Commodore involvement. :-(

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
Rick Balkins
2007-02-27 17:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Well, some people may not be ready to work on it by May but at another time.

Still, there maybe a possibility but even if it ceases to be continued. The
concept may still be applied in someone else's project.
Post by r***@value.net
Post by Rick Balkins
The idea of the C=VGA is good - even if it isn't THE "C=VGA". Enough said
about the C=VGA.
Not quite. Dated Feb. 26, the latest update to the C=VGA project
has
been posted by Allan Bairstow. Go to
http://commodorescene.servebbs.org/vga.html
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
Tom
2007-02-21 03:49:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vanessa Ezekowitz
Post by Joseph Fenn
I'm looking to buy an NTSC to VGA adapter for my C64 [...]
I've tried an "AverMedia TV Genie" once before and the picture quality
through the S-video input looked quite good. Even the games with goofy
color schemes were readable. Unfortunately this box has an annoying
cooling fan which is almost as loud as a PC. [...]
tom Forget it! the Device your looking for turned out to be "vqporware"
and never was finalized. It was called "CBM=VGA" but the guy in
England that was gonna produce it never came up with it. They just
could'nt get it to work on NTSC systems but am told they did
create a box for PAL systems that not only worked for the C64 but also
the C128. Nothing further has ever been heard of this device and
it just dissappeared of the news groups.
Joe
Joe, for G*D sakes, knock it off about the C=VGA. Every single time someone
brings up "C64" and "VGA" in the same paragraph, you repeat the same
diatribe!
WE ALREADY KNOW C=VGA DOESN'T HANDLE NTSC!
As Tom said quite clearly, he ALREADY HAD A WORKING DEVICE WHICH HE STOPPED
USING because of the fan noise it generates. The device he's using is
probably one of the MANY SUCH DEVICES designed to accept ANY GENERIC NTSC
VIDEO SIGNAL, which more or less includes the C64 (depending on how picky
the VGA box is).
(btw Tom, where did you buy that Genie, and for how much?)
Yikes! I didn't mean to start a huge flame war here, my apologies if I asked a
"sensitive" question.

As for the AverMedia TV Genie, I bought it some time in 1997 for around
$150 at a local computer store. It's discontiued now but the company
(www.aver.com) still makes TV tuners. They have the TvBox7 and TvBox9.

For now, I decided to order the Kworld box since there's a mail-in rebate and
I'm fairly certain that it's fanless (it has an internal speaker!). Also this
box can apparently handle HDTV signals including 720p and 1080i which means
that its A/D converters should be, in theory, twice as good as a regular TV
adapter. Another plus is that it has component inputs Y-Pb-Pr so with a simple
converter like this one:
http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/interfaces/diytranscoder_johrhees.html
It should be able to handle the output from an Amiga 500. But I won't say
any more about that for fear of starting another off-topic flame war.

--Tom.
bud
2007-02-21 07:25:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom
Yikes! I didn't mean to start a huge
flame war here,=85
_You_ didn't,=85 J. Fenn did,=85 as he always does if NTSC and VGA are
mentioned in the same context.
Post by Tom
=85my apologies if I asked a "sensitive"
question.
It's not sensitive, except to Joe, and no apologies required.

salaam,
dowcom

To e-mail me, add the character zero to "dowcom". i.e.:
dowcom(zero)(at)webtv(dot)net.
--
http://community.webtv.net/dowcom/DOWCOMSAMSTRADGUIDE

MSWindows is television,=85 Linux is radar.
Tom
2007-02-28 23:35:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom
I'm looking to buy an NTSC to VGA adapter for my C64 [...]
For now, I decided to order the Kworld box since there's a mail-in rebate and
I'm fairly certain that it's fanless (it has an internal speaker!).
The Kworld box arrived yesterday and here's what it looks like:
Loading Image...
The kWorld box is the one on the right, my old TV Genie is the one on the
left, and the hackjob in the back is my PS2 to C64 keyboard & mouse converter.

The results from the Kworld box look fairly decent:
Loading Image...
Here's a close up where you can see the C64's pixels and even the pixels on
my LCD monitor:
Loading Image...
For those who enjoy counting pixels here's an even better closeup:
Loading Image...

The results are still not perfect however, for two reasons. First, some of the
wierd color combinations push the chroma decoder past its limits:
Loading Image...
For example red on blue is problematic, while brown on blue and dark grey
on blue are completely illegible. In all fairness these combinations are
difficult even for my good ol' 1802 CRT.

The second reason is that the converter in this box uses standard 4:2:2 chroma
sampling with (probably) 720 luminance samples per line. This means that for
every two luminance samples on one line there is only one chrominance sample:
Loading Image...
Notice that the six yellow dots on the left differ in hue and affect the
chroma samples next to them while the six white dots on the right do not. To
avoid this problem, an ideal converter for the C64 would use 4:4:4 sampling or
4:2:2 sampling with more than 640 samples inside the border. Generally this is
not a big deal though, since most programs won't use awkward colors. However
games like Impossible Mission do use cyan on white. This is perfectly fine on
an 1802 but the 4:2:2 limitation of the Kworld box makes it illegible :(

If anyone knows of any device that performs better than the Kworld and is
still in the consumer price range, let me know. I realize that there are
professional grade scan doublers that sell for over $500 but that's a bit
outside my price range. I tried looking for the ViewSonic box that someone
suggested but it's been discontinued for quite some time now and nobody seems
to have any left in stock. I even tried eBay with no luck.
--Tom.
Rick Balkins
2007-03-01 18:01:16 UTC
Permalink
It's vertical positioning is about right for what you would see when hooking
a C64 to a TV. Pretty good.

With exception of some border stuff, it should be just fine.

However, after looking at a few of the pics, this would not be the best
converter. We all know that the blue and red bleeds and on the edges of the
red kind of mixes into a purple.

Nice read, Tom.
Post by Tom
Post by Tom
I'm looking to buy an NTSC to VGA adapter for my C64 [...]
For now, I decided to order the Kworld box since there's a mail-in rebate and
I'm fairly certain that it's fanless (it has an internal speaker!).
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/Tom8192/CRW_3892_RT8.png
The kWorld box is the one on the right, my old TV Genie is the one on the
left, and the hackjob in the back is my PS2 to C64 keyboard & mouse converter.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/Tom8192/CRW_3881_RT8.png
Here's a close up where you can see the C64's pixels and even the pixels on
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/Tom8192/CRW_3882_RT8a.png
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/Tom8192/CRW_3882_RT8b.png
The results are still not perfect however, for two reasons. First, some of the
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/Tom8192/CRW_3885_RT8.png
For example red on blue is problematic, while brown on blue and dark grey
on blue are completely illegible. In all fairness these combinations are
difficult even for my good ol' 1802 CRT.
The second reason is that the converter in this box uses standard 4:2:2 chroma
sampling with (probably) 720 luminance samples per line. This means that for
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/Tom8192/CRW_3888_RT8.png
Notice that the six yellow dots on the left differ in hue and affect the
chroma samples next to them while the six white dots on the right do not. To
avoid this problem, an ideal converter for the C64 would use 4:4:4 sampling or
4:2:2 sampling with more than 640 samples inside the border. Generally this is
not a big deal though, since most programs won't use awkward colors. However
games like Impossible Mission do use cyan on white. This is perfectly fine on
an 1802 but the 4:2:2 limitation of the Kworld box makes it illegible :(
If anyone knows of any device that performs better than the Kworld and is
still in the consumer price range, let me know. I realize that there are
professional grade scan doublers that sell for over $500 but that's a bit
outside my price range. I tried looking for the ViewSonic box that someone
suggested but it's been discontinued for quite some time now and nobody seems
to have any left in stock. I even tried eBay with no luck.
--Tom.
Loading...